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Hi Carolin, thanks for making this task. We should fully discuss asap as there's still quite some stuff to sort out before I can start building this.

MATERIALS

Okay so here is the dealio. From a technical perspective it really complicates matters if different users/sub-sites use different material catalogs. For certain niche sites (e.g. the academic data hub) we can allow people to define their own material catalog or access all of them, but for a wider audience it doesn't benefit us to offer this kind of flexibility (because people will get lost in the duplicity). It is for this reason that I set up the "Energy, materials and products catalog". This has been in use during the various courses, and I feel that some sort of a master catalog that tries to offer people a simple way of tagging things, but from different angles (products, materials, waste) and that necessarily has some duplication, is indeed the best way to go. Material consolidation into a single catalog is something that academic users can do in their own portal.

The EMP catalog is far from perfect. I envision we need to do quite some hammering to make it better. However, it is a decent start. What I would therefore like to ask you is: can you see your two catalogs fit inside this one? And if so, where/how?

OTHER TAGS

"In addition, we require the following tags..." You are an expert in sneakily throwing a huge task my way ;-) Yeah so this is not very straightforward. As you know, having a freestyle approach around tagging, which is what we basically had in MOC2.0, really makes out life complicated in the long term. Also, tagging is the main method used to put documents in a certain layer. Now the first two (biomass/construction) what are they? Biomass is a material group, and construction is an economic activity. Can we not use those appropriate labels for that? I am happy to look into ways to label documents with economic activities. And biomass is already a high-level item in the EMP catalog. The other four, would it not be possible to simply make a layer for those and thus have it available as tags?

Hi Paul,
Thanks for your response.

Materials
I will have a look and see if the CL materials fit into the EMP. I will make an extra column for those in the spreadsheet. I can imagine that for biomass it could fit more easily, as we have lots of the EW-MFA names and the EMP is built on that, if I remember correctly. For construction it could be trickier. Is there an easier way to see the entire list of the EMP, one where things aren't nested? The search function doesn't allow to scan the deeper levels.

Other tags
Hehe, I don't know if I should apologise or take it as a compliment for sneakily asking, but either way I'm grateful that you often take on what I'm asking and even if it means that we are just discussing it.
Biomass and construction are "sectors" in CL. It is meant to help see right away which sector a dataset belongs to, since that is NOT evident from the layer name and less straightforward from a material name.

1. Tagging biomass as a material group is fine.
2. However, we don't have a construction layer...I suppose people could tag with "EMP8 Buildings and construction" though.
3. Tagging with economic activities (EA) is an idea that I've considered as well. I need to think about this more. The issue is that we haven't identified all NACE codes for all material value chains yet.
4. Other four: "Simply making a layer for those" is perhaps oversimplified ;) I see 3 options, see screenshot. Option 1, we have atm, which is why we need those 4 tags. Option 2 would make sense for the EA tagging, Option 3 bundles both into one and doesn't allow for much flexibility. Also, then we'd have 16x3 or 16x4 sublayers...not so nice. Option 2 seems best. BUT Aris has to also agree, I guess :P

With regards to materials, I've tried to match them with the EMP catalogue, see this task.

Thanks Carolin.

Materials

OK cool - and it will be no problem to add things there so I think that should work. There's no good way to view all at the moment, I should make something for that one day...

Other tags

Jeje I'd say it's tricky but also good when I get those requests - keep 'm coming but I'll keep pushing back where needed ;-)

With regards to your points:

1. OK perfect
2. Yeah I guess EMP8 could work. Do note: as I mentioned I am happy to work on a separate field for sectors/economic activities. We would then link it to one of these catalogs. If that can be done easily and sensibly, then it's best to just tag the construction activities there, because that is really what the document is about (I guess) and not (necessarily) the construction materials, no?
3. OK let me know
4. Ahhhh whooaa I get it now, you want to apply this to all existing layers. HOWEVER, again as long as you don't expect the system to make all kinds of matrices and reports in very specific ways, then we can hack our way around this. You can add it as a different, but HIDDEN layer. By that I mean that you simply add those four tags in a new layer (call it CL EXTRA TAG LAYER), which is at the top level of the tagging tree, so NOT nested in existing ones. I call it hidden because it will NOT be visible when people see the list with all the layers. They simply have to upload something as they already do (e.g. layer 2 > Landfill). Then, when they enter the item's details (say like here) then under TAGS the system WILL show those tags from the CL EXTRA TAG LAYER in addition to the tags already there. So in your instructions you just say: add the right label under tags to indicate what kinda doc it is.

How does that sound??

Finally getting back to your points:

1. Ok. I'm taking you up on your offer then to have an extra field for economic activities (EA), especially now since the NACE codes do become more prominent and since we already have the NACE Rev. 2 in STAF. For Layer 2, the idea is that a document is tagged with the EA, material and "GDP/actors" and in Layer 3 with the EA and material/waste.
2. See 2.
3. Yeah...you gave Aris and I a hard time because of this, because we spent over an hour on Friday trying to find a way around it, so we were really glad when you granted us the additional tags ;) I'm fine with hacking. No expectations around matrices and reports. I wanted to set up the CL EXTRA TAG LAYER, but wasn't sure if top level of tagging tree means really at the very top, so adding #10 or not nesting it in #2 (or #2.1) actually? I've added it now where I think where you meant, could you please let me know if it is correct? Thanks.

1 & 2) OK copy that. I will then load all the NACE Rev 2 EAs in the system and allow people to pick any item (one or multiple) from those - correct? Do note that exactly in what combination people tag things (layer 2 vs 3 explanation that you gave) that the system won't guide them but you must do that therefore, right?
3) Ah I meant at the top of the CL tag level -- doesn't really matter much but I've moved it there.

Okay I'm all set I think (just confirm point 1 please). When do you need this by?

Task was assigned to Paul Hoekman

1&2) Correct, they should be able to pick one or multiple. So in total there will be 3 fields for tagging: layer tags, EA tags and ref space tags. We will instruct them in the course what to tag where, yes.
3) Like I said, I wasn't sure. Thanks for moving them.
4) Remember that we also need to have the materials as tags, depending on what we decide in this task now.

We would need this by Friday, so that Aris can make the video. If that doesn't work you, then Monday by 10 am, so that we can show them in the course meeting. Does that work for you?

OK noted on all fronts. This week is really busy, Sunday is likely the best I can do.

Nice. That would be much appreciated! Thanks Paul.

Hi Paul,
Here a small update that will make your life (and ours) easier, we hope: You do NOT have to import CPA and EWC, LoW codes. We will try to manage this with the EMP codes for now, also the waste materials. Please do still add the EAs as tags and make the CL EXTRA TAGS functional for CL Data items. Thank you!!

Got it Carolin!

Status change: Open → In Progress

Hi Carolin (and Aris), I've made the changes. Please view a video here with more detail. In short:

• CL Extra Data Layer was added, and can now be selected from the list under the TAGS section
• For the EA, it turns out that the system was initially structured so that we could link items to so-called Sectors, not individual EAs (sectors are groups of EAs). This seems much more user-friendly and easier to use than having a catalog with thousands of very technically defined items in there. From your explanation it seems to me that it also works for your purposes. So please have a look and let me know if this works.

Post-video note: I was mixing up where materials would appear... it should be added as a separate field -- which is now done. So in the form you'll see a MATERIALS field and that's where BIOMASS can be entered (EMP1), and it will load all EMP materials so please adjust that as you see fit to accommodate the waste flows etc and that way everything can be tagged.

That should be it. I'm marking this as DONE assuming the sector-solution works. Let me know if further work is needed.

Good luck!

Status change: In Progress → Completed